Major Publisher Discusses Targeting

USA Today's Vice President of Sales Lorraine Ross discusses behavioral targeting with iMedia's Neil Perry.

Coming soon from iMedia Communications is a new report, "Demystifying, Defining and Profiting from Behavioral Targeting." For the report, iMedia Vice President Neil Perry interviewed a wide range of industry experts, including USA Today's Vice President of Sales Lorraine Ross. While some of her most important insights appear in the soon-to-be-released report, here we present an extended excerpt from the interview.

Neil Perry: Who is your provider for behavioral targeting, and how long have they been doing it?

Lorraine Ross: The provider is TACODA, and we have been doing it since … I think we launched it September 2003.

Perry: What is the benefit to USA Today of behavioral targeting?

Ross: The benefit to us is it helps us optimize our inventory by putting the focus on the characteristics of the audience, regardless of where they are on the site. You create value by identifying the audience, not just the content they are reading. And, so, you multiply the value. It is not like you are abandoning the value of the contextual relevance; but you are able to say, "Oh, and in addition, we know this about this person."

The less anonymous our reader is to the marketers, the more valuable he or she becomes.

So, it optimizes the inventory. It also helps to drive rates, because you are, to a certain extent, profiling. You are able to profile me, the reader … you are able to get more for exposing the marketer to that reader, that audience member.

Perry: What about for the marketer? How do you serve it up to the advertiser? What is the benefit to them?

Ross: Well, better targeting. I think that there is … the ability to provide more and more targeting against the individual, not necessarily in a [direct response way], you know clickthrough, or take-action kind of way; but, just in terms of being able to identify demographics, behavior (meaning sort of intention, or mindset), geography -- all of these things are incredibly valuable to a marketer, because they are able to speak directly either their best customers, or best prospects.

Perry: All right, now how satisfied would you say you are with the success of your behavioral targeting program?

Ross: I am very satisfied. It is still in its infancy, though. I think that behavioral targeting still has a long way to go as we continue to, first of all, grow our audience and collect and aggregate information about our readers. You know, for example, we have a mortgage calculator on our site. We have looked at creating a behavioral segment around it, because certainly that kind of purchase intent is ... to be able to identify that is phenomenal -- it is phenomenally valuable. But, we don't have enough people at any one time really using the mortgage calculator on our new site, (because we are not a financial site specifically), for it to really make sense for us now.

But, as our audience, as our site continues to grow, or we link into other sites, then that potential is really there to create those segments. So, we are very satisfied with the contribution that behavioral targeting has made so far. But, I think we continue to look out to say, "All right, what else can we do with identifying our readers? How else can we do that? And, how can we even cross path the characteristics? Can we layer things on top of one another to make it that much more specific?"

Perry: Have the marketers who are utilizing it gotten a little skittish of late, with all of the HR29 [anti-spyware legislation] related stuff that is going on out there, and all of the focus on cookies? Or, are they still pretty actively engaged in behavioral targeting?

Ross: They seem to be actively engaged. They care about their success metrics. And, from what I can tell, there is full movement away from rigid adherence to success metrics, such as, "Well, we need people. We don't care how you do it, Mr. Publisher. But, we need people to visit our site and go through three page views, or we don't consider it to be a success." So, they are really, really still very, very busy evaluating on the back end. If we could do it by only serving ads on Tuesdays, and that got them their success metrics, that would be fine with them. It is really the publisher that is saying, "I think I know what would work for you." We are trying to answer the marketer's problem. But, the marketers … I don't even think they care how the problem gets solved. It is really up to the publisher. But, they recognize logically behavioral targeting makes sense as a way to attack that problem.

Perry: Approximately what percentage of your campaigns are behavioral targeted, or include a behavioral targeting piece? And, where do you think it is going to go next year?

Ross: I think there is never a campaign that is solely behavioral targeting. That is largely because we are trying to optimize a client's campaign. They come to us, and we say, "Okay, a little of this, and a little of this, and a little of this." A little contextual, a little behavioral, a little demographic targeting. And, then that gives the publisher the flexibility to, when the marketer comes back and says "This part is really working, but this part is not," you are able to really hold them to the buy. But you know, you start out with three different options, three different choices. So, there is an inherent expectation that the client is going to come back to want to optimize.

But, to answer your question, and what I will do is I will go back to finance and ask for the percentages, because the [estimated] amount of … the number of proposals, or IOs [insertion orders], that actually contain a behavioral targeted component is about 50 percent. But, the amount from behavioral targeting very, very specifically and narrowly stated is maybe, you know, 10 to 15 percent.

Neil Perry: What are your thoughts, and your company's thoughts, about all of the broo ha ha over cookies, and the deletion of cookies, et cetera.?

Lorraine Ross: You know, we have read the Jupiter survey, and I keep up on all of my newsletters, and … I think they are right. I think that there are an awful lot of people who are deleting their cookies, even inadvertently by using AdAware or Spybot. Keeping your PC clean of viruses has become, I think, critical to consumers. And, if by using those products you are wiping out cookies, then, yeah, I think cookie counts are incredibly unstable. So, I think that there is a real issue there. I do. And, I think that it is really problematic. It sets us back, because it prevents us from really understanding a lot of things -- the total size of your audience, frequency -- all of these things are compromised when users are aggressively deleting their cookies. I mean, you run the risk of asking them again for registration information, and it is just … you know, you really get worried about that.

Perry: Yeah. The consumers are getting, I think, much more reluctant to offer up that information, just because those one or two times you get taken advantage of it is just a nightmare.

Ross: Well, and then you … especially when the registration process is a little bit, somewhat onerous. Then, your cookie gets wiped out because you are using an AdAware program because you are trying to eliminate viruses. And, then you go back to your favorite site, and they want the same information all over again. And so it is a slippery slope.

Perry: Yeah, like when you ask just to get a copy of an article, and six screens later you are still filling out some forms, and you start realizing …

Ross: Yeah, I think that that is really a problem. That is why we have made a conscious decision not to go … and here is where the difference is: I think the companies that are contact companies exclusively are going to have a really tough time maintaining a customer information database and asking people for information. I think companies that are utility based, and I mean media companies like Yahoo! … well, you are really going there to use a tool, and the contact is really a nice side business for them. But, you are really going there because that is where your email is. Or, you are going to, you know, you are going to use a tool. Then, I think that they have a better chance of … you would be more likely, more inclined, to go ahead and put that information back in again.

I also think that … (I forgot to mention this earlier) one thing we have done is we have undertaken what we call the "perceptive cookie project" here, where we try to … you probably can only host, I guess it is anywhere up to 20 cookies, at any one time. And, so the cookies will get bumped off if new cookies are being introduced. You just can't host that many. So, we also have tried to do that where certain cookies will be made persistent. It is almost like you put a timestamp on the really important ones. And, you push those to the front of the line. It doesn't eliminate the problem of cookie deletion. But, at the very least, you can take the most important cookies to you … or, the ones that are, you know, site designated, and then make sure that they are the freshest cookies so that they never expire and get bumped off of a browser.

Perry: What advice do you have to either marketers or advertisers that are considering behavioral targeting?

Ross: Ummm … advice. What really works best is when marketers come to us with broadly stated issues, and they help us to solve the problem with them. Because, most of the time, we don't have a canned segment created for them. But, if we apply our brains and some technology we can come up with a customized solution. I think increasingly sites will be required to really come up with more customized approaches to a marketer's problems. And, behavioral, I would include in that. Some of these solutions are only going to work if the site is gigantic -- like one of the portals. But, that is the advice I would give: when you receive directions from clients that are really very tactical … and I get really worried about behavioral standards, because I think, well, one size is not going to fit all. I mean, we might be able to solve your problem without necessarily adhering to an arbitrary standard that you are setting for the behavioral segment. Let us try some different things with you, to try to solve that problem.

Perry: Thoughts on the future?

Ross: Where it is going to go to next is, I think, really interesting, because publishers are increasingly … technology is being developed, software is being developed, that allows publishers to database all of their information and metatag all of their information. And, increasingly, publishers are moving in this direction. We will be able to take advantage of some of the … not so much Google's business model, if you will, by observing the behaviors, on a nuance level on our site. So, for example, publishers are moving towards the dynamic display of information.

So, you come to my site, and you are looking for information about a certain band, say, in the music section. And, the publisher at this point will be able to, very soon, offer you up a page -- and, it really doesn't even exist on our site, but because you requested information about a specific band, we are able to dynamically compose a page of relevant articles, photos, video … you know, links right in front of you.

And, I think where behavioral targeting goes after that is that now I know that you have this interest. And, you have used my site in a way that maybe you formerly would have used a search engine … to be, just to be entertained and get your information. And, that is going to provide publishers with much more insight into their behavior and purchase intent, rather than just, "Well, what did you tell me in your ZAG [ZIP Code, Age, Gender] registration form? And, have you gone to the travel section, you know, a couple of times in the last 30 days?" So, I think publishers, and the publishing model, are really shifting in an interesting way that will allow us to -- without invading anybody's privacy -- be able to really infer a lot more about our readers and be able to offer that kind of relevant advertising that everyone says that they are interested in. So, that is going to change, and I look forward to that, because it is better targeting, better targeting, better targeting!

Perry: Yeah, and really, that is the strength of our business. And, we are really starting to assert our muscle, right now, in that area. So, it is great.

Ross: Yeah, I mean, publishing is changing, and that is going to have a direct impact on our ability to understand readers and serve them better advertising.

Perry: Yeah. Great. Well, listen, I really enjoyed this conversation, and I appreciate you taking the time.

Ross: All right, take care.